S2 Episode 3

[deanna_nwosu]: On today’s episode of Experienced Junkies, you are in for a treat. I have Heidi Legein with the Mice Guru all the way from Norway, joining me for a conversation all about digital disruption, hybrid events, virtual events, but also just not being afraid to try new things and innovate and just going for it. So she kind of gave us a little bit of life coaching and a life lesson here, Uh, in the city’s episode, so sit back, relax and enjoy my conversation with Heidi Legein.

[deanna_nwosu]: welcome back to experience junkies podcast today i have a special guest the lovely Heidi Legein with the Mice Guru or Mice Guru Conferences and Exhibitions and that’s what heidi is all about and she’s based o way across the pond for me over in Norway so i’m so excited to have her here to talk to us today about a special event that she hosted last year but before we dive

[heidi_legein]: yeah

[deanna_nwosu]: into that heidi please tell the audience a little bit about who you are and what you do

[heidi_legein]: hello Deanna thank you so much for having me i’m super excited to be here with you today my name is heidi obs and i am the founder and chief executive guru at the

Mice is actually a company that produces all types of events within the the realm of Mice as you beautifully described so it can be anything from small events to large brand activation product launches incentive and reward trips for employees etc and since the pandemic we’ve expanded our services from doing life productions only to doing fully digital virtual hybrid productions with a lot of focus on innovation freshness on pushing boundaries on creating that exciting interactivity between audiences and so much more and i’m as you said based in Norway a wonderful destination both as a a destination for your in person events but as well in terms of using it as a decor for any type of virtual setting and Norway is just magical it’s gorgeous nature it’s the fd it’s northern lights wherever you go there’s something amazing to discover so we really live in a playground that’s absolutely fun to be a part of and to work with every day

[deanna_nwosu]: well you read my mind heidi cause i was definitely going to ask you to kind of

tell the listeners a little about the secret sauce of Norway and what makes it so special and kind of painting the picture for them but you just kind of did that so eloquently already

[heidi_legein]: oh there’s so much more to discover i mean there’s endless numbers of destinations all throughout the year so whether you’re looking uh in the w in the winter period or summer time you can as i mentioned travel through the fs you can  go all the way up to the arctic you can even see polar bears if you want to have an experience at the end of the world we have a super vibrant and exciting capital we have destinations that are leading in terms of innovation and change new technology there’s a lot of excitement happening in Norway and especially now post pandemic it’s one of the top destinations because you know a lot of companies and organizations are looking for exactly that they’re looking to refresh themselves and their employees they might have changed their policies their structures they want uh they want to feel that fresh breeze of change that are working with transformation they want to see innovation but they also want to feel safe have enough space and that as well we have a lot of

that to offer like there’s a huge amount of space everywhere you go and you can  experience the nature to its fullest plus we have all the modern infrastructure to create really really exciting stuff wherever you want to go so yeah come to Norway

[deanna_nwosu]: well i’m sure the um visit Norway or i don’t know what the local tourism bureau is called but they really appreciate the kind of free information you just provided there for the destination for your for your home um i know that misket orly kind of been about destination management services so talk to me about when you know you had to make the shift to virtual how did you initially feel about that when so much of what you were doing was you know creating experiences based on a physical destination

[heidi_legein]: exactly well i am a person who really loves a good challenge many of us do in the events industry so i was one of those people that immediately hopped on a digital deep dive and wanting to learn more and to get new accreditations and level up in terms of what we can do digitally and figure out ways to keep exciting our audiences through their screens when they were not able to travel anymore so very very early on in the pandemic we actually went into to that and we started by creating a project called the digital trip which was literally a two day digital travel experience and everybody was like wait what they had no idea what was about to happen and everybody felt like yeah they they’ve had already a couple of zoom or internal teams meetings or things like that but they couldn’t really grasp that you could do so much more and that it could be more exciting to participate in something so they the digital then at the time and then basically the initial reaction was am i supposed to sit two days in front of my computer like what how does

[deanna_nwosu]: exactly

[heidi_legein]: that work like am i supposed to block my calendar for this i don’t see this being this happening right and then i said yeah just wait and see where we’re all kind of pushing with lots of exciting promotions and then the people who participated were like oh my god i couldn’t even go for a coffee break or a bathroom break it  was i was so scared to miss something because we did we designed it in in real time so you were literally traveling with the group you were coming out of an airplane and looking around and you were discovering the place you were meeting people you were part of parties and everything was in real time and live from venue to

[deanna_nwosu]: wow

[heidi_legein]: venues was super exciting but of course we’ve always already been on kind of the innov innovative side in terms of destination management we are not your typical tour operator style business turned mice agency or delivering to corporate clients but we’ve always worked out of the client’s identity their event goes and then try to match that and their policies and values with parts of our destination or creating immersive experiences based on their brand more than selling products on site right i’m not the type of person that will tell you need to go to that hotel you need to book that when you do that activity i will first want to understand who you are and and what you’re trying to achieve so we already had that to start

[deanna_nwosu]: three

[heidi_legein]: with in our general in person destination management and you can call it what you like a lot of people like to call us an incoming experiential agency because it’s about more than just delivering services it’s creating concepts it’s developing the ideas all the way to the production so that was already our let’s say our core personality as a business and then we kind of implemented that also in the way forward with the digital strategy and now we went really really deep into that and we offer even consultancy on digital strategy that incorporates both internal external meetings conferences and events in person virtual and digital building online communities building a solid digital identity new marketing and so much more so we’ve expanded our services actually more than we’ve gotten scared of the pandemic we just you know we did what we could to quickly shift our mindset and and keep helping our clients in ways that they couldn’t even imagine were possible

[deanna_nwosu]: i’m glad that you mentioned the digital trip because i think that’s actually how i stumbled onto your page because i was following sabrina myers with hot hospitality exchange um and she was on the podcast for

[heidi_legein]: wow

[deanna_nwosu]: season one and she was posting about this digital trip and i’m like what is this thing that she’s kind of hopping along on so yeah i am glad that you mentioned that because i think that’s how i first learned about the Mice Guru and like the services that you offer that you guys exist in the world so what i would love for you to talk

[heidi_legein]: cold

[deanna_nwosu]: a little bit about is kind of you kind of mentioned you created this immersive

live experience you know wasn’t recorded they were you know what they were seeing uh via their zoom screen was what was was happening live um in person what i feel gets lost a lot of times through a screen is the sensory aspect you know the sensory aspect of taste of touch of smell that really you know a lot of of in person events is about the foods that you’re eating and the smells behind the scenes and the sights and the sounds so can you talk about how you found ways to work around that and really connect with an audience even though maybe some of the traditional sensory methods we went half for an in person experience they weren’t at your disposal

[heidi_legein]: sure i mean first of all i love sabrina

sabrina’s awesome so we’ve been good friends and

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah two boats there right

[heidi_legein]: we’ve been good friends for a while now and and collaborated on a bunch of projects and she we hired her as the ambassador for the digital trip at the time show show she did like destination tutorials and she worked on our social media campaigns etc and then we had her on at the recent event called the digital disruptor so basically our entire journey has been from in person to fully virtual to hybrid and now going back to in person but not back back but having like the in person aspect but also a lot more hybrid to to projects that wouldn’t necessarily have been hybrid before so how we started to incorporate the senses with the digital trip was by first of all thinking in a completely different way about how you use production tools and how you use a video for example how you film and how you video mix the whole scenario or the whole environment to make it feel more alive and real and you said everything was live not everything was live we had a two day full on program so basically we had about thirty pre recorded sessions and we had i think six alive venues so you can imagine everybody told us from the beginning you guys are absolutely insane and we kind of were you have to be

[deanna_nwosu]: right to to embark on something like that yeah

[heidi_legein]: a little bit crazy to to do stuff like that but we literally moved our entire production team alive on the days from venue to venue to venue because we said no to wanting to stream from a typical studio as everybody else was doing we wanted to use the live venues and the live

environment and that has literally been our starting point to create that engagement on a deeper level because if you are in front of your screen i keep saying the same thing over and over again but if i’m able to cook my dinner whilst you’re on or have your event on then i’m not excited enough i

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: need to be like glued to my screen i need to feel like i’m a part of it and i i want to enjoy myself there and i can’t leave right so that’s what we try to create and it started with the live venues and also the filming of everything that was pre recorded was from a guest perspective so you are literally the camera is you it’s your eyes right so we started at a specific time everybody landed together ah i announced as the captain of the plane welcome to your

destination to stang or whatever and you literally see yourself walking down the steps from the airplane through the airport into your transfer transfer vehicle you see the duration of the transfer you see literally what is happening through the windows so it gives you that feeling of being on site completely right then you arrive at one of the venues and then we immediately switched to a live production which is then streamed out of that venue with a full on setup that you would have for an in person event meaning light set up you know entertainment a host or

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: moderator things happening around you and you go through that entire experience as if you would be on site so that’s been a major part of it using the video technology and the filming and the mixing live venues and then additionally we had vip boxes and i’m feeling they’re starting to be a little bit outdated now like we’re getting a little bit more reluctant in terms of shipping kits and

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: event boxes et cetera but at the time it was very fresh and new literally with products that you could taste there were products from one of our celebrity chefs ah that was also on the program there were things you could wear there were things you could use in in activities like we had a craft activity where you had to learn viking knitting skills and things like that you know so basically imagine everything you’ve seen as like an online engagement activity from mix to cooking courses to tastings to whichever escape game or whatever combined combined into a two day

[deanna_nwosu]: wow

[heidi_legein]: program of non stop stuff that happens right so so that was kind of where we where we went with the digital trip and then moving towards the digital disruptor there were in an entirely new world so i can talk a little bit more about that later if you like

[deanna_nwosu]: no that’s a perfect segue cause i wanted to kind of start diving into the digital disruptor so unfortunately i could not attend i think i had a scheduling conflict i was speaking at an event or something and but i saw it

[heidi_legein]: i remember you said

[deanna_nwosu]: all over my social it seemed like everyone in the event industry was if they weren’t in person in Norway that they were um logging on online to take part in the virtual experience so how did you find you know with the digital trip everyone was virtual you know like as you mentioned you pre produced a lot of segments for your transitions um and then you had you know your live production partners at the venues but when you’re talking about the digital disruptor that was a live event with two audiences so how did you find that that shift of you know making that connection with you know the people that are in the room with you that can reach out and touch but also making that connection via the screen to those who were watching thousands of miles away

[heidi_legein]: yeah it was such an exciting project Deanna like really and i usually our our

deas usually start from from me being annoyed with something or

[deanna_nwosu]: that’s

[heidi_legein]: getting bored and they

[deanna_nwosu]: that’s usually where most inventions come from right they come from being inconvenienced or

[heidi_legein]: right

[deanna_nwosu]: like a problem so that makes sense

[heidi_legein]: yeah, i was at the conception stage of this i was just so frustrated because i had attended event after event after event online and all they did was talk about the future of events and hybrid events this and that but nobody had a nice example of an actual

[deanna_nwosu]: yes

[heidi_legein]: hybrid event that had been

[deanna_nwosu]: yes

[heidi_legein]: successful so i was like okay guys like stop talking do something you know

[deanna_nwosu]: yes we need action we need results

[heidi_legein]: yeah we need to see this we need to push boundaries and see what we can do

instead of just sitting in front of a screen and talking about visions so that’s how we kind of came up with with creating a showcase event that really went beyond anything imaginable so with the digital disruptor it got quite complex it was all about again using technology to our advantage but combining it was of course a natural evolution from having only virtual to introducing a live audience again it was still very

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: limited the live audience was still very small because of the regulations at the time but we had a whole lot of people joining online as you said from around the world and sabrina she was our virtual our life moderator for that event so she actually traveled to Norway to to be with me on the stage there so what happened with the digital disruptor was that we built a program where we kind of invited some of the leading keynotes in the world at the time we had duncan wardell who is the former head of innovation of disney at disney we  had sean kuno from canada who’s had years and years in dewitt keynote speaker by forbes for twenty twenty one and we basically pushed their boundaries and told them okay let’s think outside of your regular zoom format outside of the zoom breakout we are going onto a proper event platform and we are building a multiple dimension

[deanna_nwosu]: mhm

[heidi_legein]: communication basically we had our live audience in a live venue very cool venue called fo i mean literally if you’ of missing out you you couldn’t be in a in a

[deanna_nwosu]: how you couldn’t you couldn’t have found a better option right

[heidi_legein]: better place


so that was where our our live audience was and we had a very big video wall and we were literally talking the live audience was literally talking through the video wall with the presenters abroad so everybody was saying at the time you can’t do hybrid if you’re going to have a virtual keynote speaker and people are just gonna sit and watch a screen and immediately when things say you can when people say you can’t do something or they tell me no i’m like hm let’s think

[deanna_nwosu]: oh you’re such a rebel heidi you’re such a rebel i love it

[heidi_legein]: about this so basically what we did was we created these multiple streams of communication with delays with external video callings and with better software to

augment the setting and the scenery of where our our speakers were were so they were in either an augmented virtual studio a virtual show floor and they were literally talking to our audience members live and that was made possible as well through very complex video mixing but with rover camps that were walking with sabrina who was our audience engagement moderator through the live audience literally with a camera in their face talking to them and that feed was immediately fed back to the tech team on the on the speaker side so they they could have a conversation and then we had projections of what was happening in the virtual rooms with the augmented reality back into the live audience we had what we call virtual life stations where our live audience member members went into rooms and they then did speed dating through t twin with people sitting

[deanna_nwosu]: well

[heidi_legein]: sitting at home and those people at home were suddenly in the live venue and they were like oh my god what okay cool like surprising elements all the time and you literally had a duncan world talk to a guy at the bar in the live venue saying like hey are you already going to party or that was shan are you already going to to party like i wanted to talk to you you know and it became this entire event where the audience really felt as one like everybody was literally experiencing the event together not just a live audience with people at home just sitting and watching right but there was so much more to it i mean there were 

since it was a showcase event i also wanted the live audience to understand what is possible virtually so we had our a green screen studio literally right next to the live audience so they could see how it is built and how with the projections they could see the result on the virtual platform then we had our live chats and our live activity from the platform stream back to the live audience so they constantly were made aware of the fact that it’s not just them but it’s all those people around the world sitting at home and enjoying this with them so so we did our best to really yeah push those boundaries and create that extra level of interactivity and engagement throughout the project and was absolutely fabulous it’s still used now as an example of innovation in events around the world and so much exciting stuff has grown out of this project so yeah definitely one of our one of our lovely babies in pandemic babies

[deanna_nwosu]: how i what i wanna know is how much of uh recovery time did you need after this event because in my mind as an event producer i know the various elements that you had to pull together to make this happen and you essentially had a tv studio you had on site av production you had an in person event in terms of catering and all that comes with that and then you also have like virtual engagement you’re dealing with twine which is an external event tech partners so yeah i’m just wondering how much recovery time it took for you after pulling all of that together

[heidi_legein]: twine was just one one of many partners uh we were on cadence event tech platform amazing to work with them by the way they were also very eager to to to work with us on this we had brand madu photo boots we had all types of add ons so yeah it was a very long road with lots

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah

[heidi_legein]: of bumps and lots of technical trials and errors and lots of experimentation but that was literally what the digital disruptor was about you know you can’t disrupt if you just do whatever you’ve always been doing you have to experiment and innovate and be a little bit crazy but in terms of recovery time i mean uh that was in september twenty twenty one i don’t think i’m fully recovered quite yet

[deanna_nwosu]: makes sense makes sense

[heidi_legein]: there was it it it really like too absolutely everything i had v but as i said i mean nothing has stopped ever since like we’ve been growing out of that event and so many people have seen it and so many new projects have were born out out of that because people even people like you who didn’t fully were able or had a chance to participate on the live day who saw the massive engagement online and they were like oh my god i’ve seen so much hybrid stuff on your social media tell us more and then when they learn more about the event yeah they’re like oh

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah i had major fomo

[heidi_legein]: my god we want to do something like this like help us you know so yeah but not not recovered and i don’t need to i mean i’m still kind of living on the off of the buzz of that it was a really cool event

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah yeah that’s that’s awesome what i love that you mention is you can’t disrupt if you’re not willing to you know try new things and and experiment and i think when i think of disruption and experimentation um it’s scary for people because you’re trying something new what if it fails you know 

so can you talk a little bit about you know in building the digital trip and building the digital disruptor how you work past that fear um to go out there on a limb and do what people say can’t be done um because i think it limits a lot of people like the fear of a failure like how do you get past that

[heidi_legein]: to yeah uh and and we literally started the digital disruptor with an intro about digital angst you know that fear of digital

[deanna_nwosu]: mhm

[heidi_legein]: transformation

it’s as with everything um when i started my own business many people were saying why i mean everybody wants to hire you you could have any wonderful exciting super high level position you you can dream of why will you go through the risks of of building your own company because i just want to try it because i want to

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: go for it you know and you cannot be as afraid of failure if you want to innovate, there is no innovation without fear there really isn’t like you can either choose to be safe and stay in this little framework or this little box that you used to or you can choose to take risks and especially early on in the pandemic i feel that it was okay to take a lot more risks than usual people were also very

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: forgiving you know you could just totally fail things can go wrong and things can still go wrong digitally like all the time we see it at events that you know  connections get interrupted tech breaks things happen you can have as many contingency plans as you want things can still go wrong but people kind of embrace that uh you know it’s a possibility just as with the in person events right now when you have high levels of of covid still everybody knows there can be cases of covid at my event it can have repercussions you know you just need to be prepared for those consequences positively or negatively but as i said i i love taking on a new challenge and i never take no for an answer so if it fails i’ll just you know you keep building on it you keep improving

[deanna_nwosu]: exactly

[heidi_legein]: yourself because failure is really a learning tool and and uh it it excites me more than it brings me down if something doesn’t work out because then we kind of try and figure out a way around it or build something new and and that’s a big part of it and literally the digital disruptor was also built on a research done in leading companies around the world where more than half of the companies were saying that they were scared of being disrupted by their competition

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah

[heidi_legein]: that’s also

[deanna_nwosu]: mhm

[heidi_legein]: a fear so the the fear of not disrupting enough and somebody else disrupting more than you and then taking a leap ahead and taking a

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: leading position that’s what we as a company were able to do in Norway for example most other companies and that includes media houses and commercial agencies marketing agencies are still working with just your basic stream setup and broadcast and the typical video meeting tools because they are too scared to try and push those boundaries and come up with something that is more creative or a little bit too crazy maybe in in their minds right so to me it’s all about that just throw yourself out there nothing bad can happen even if you fail massively you’ve you will have learned a massive lesson so so it’s all good it’s all positive to me

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah absolutely it’s funny cause you know i’ve been on this entrepreneurial journey about a year or so myself and it’s so true that uh uh when you said there’s no innovation without fear and as you mentioned you know failure is just like a learning opportunity and it’s such a freeing feeling when you embrace failure when you embrace like the risk of

[heidi_legein]: yeah

[deanna_nwosu]: it not going to plan nine times out of ten when it doesn’t go to plan what actually happens ends up being better i’ve found either you know job opportunities i didn’t get you know some of these companies are now laying off people years later i’m like well i’m glad i didn’t get that job two years ago or uh i’m glad that this this event didn’t uh come to pass because you know we would have had covid a super spreader event or whatever that looks like so in the moment sometimes failure just feels so debilitating or just you know you feel kind of crushed

[heidi_legein]: uhuh

[deanna_nwosu]: under the weight but in the grand scheme of things it really can be like a turning point to either greater learning

[heidi_legein]: oh yeah

[deanna_nwosu]: a better opportunity or you know a wider door being open so thank you for kind of highlighting like just jump and do it because in in the end you you’re gonna

[heidi_legein]: you you know

[deanna_nwosu]: get gonna get value from from the decision

[heidi_legein]: totally Deanna i’m i’m a person who really trust my gut and my my intuition and my instinct and i do believe that everything happens for a reason you’re totally right but if you dare to make that move like like the things you wake up with you know like that that first moment or that first time an idea strikes if you dare to go for it and stop overthink it and starting with all the reasons why it

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: won’t work but you just go for it then then it usually turns out to be a great success so that’s kind of how i run my business and how i develop those new types of concepts

[deanna_nwosu]: i didn’t know today’s episode was going to be you know a motivational speech but that’s what we’re getting out of it today right if you don’t get that message from heidi today it’s if you just go for it because on the other side of it you’re gonna be so glad that you did

[heidi_legein]: you know what i kind of i just started a coaching program as well so there’s a : lot of people who have been telling me like oh my god can you help me like you are fearless you are going for it also a lot of expats i’ve i’m originally from belgium i’ve been in Norway for eight years but i’ve lived and worked in ten countries so a lot of people have always been asking me how do you keep reinventing yourself and building new life for yourself and it’s just about going for it so so now i’m finally also next to the consultancy of businesses that two businesses that we offer in terms of digital strategy i finally also started as a one on one personal coach so i have clients now from the event industry and outside who want to really go back to the core of who they are and their passions and work on that personal development and then include some new professional skills so it’s also a cool extra thing that’s been developing throughout the pandemic

[deanna_nwosu]: i think you’ve already kind of been on that path of inspiring people to be the best their best selves and personal development as you mentioned but another kind of initiative that you started that i loved is the event profs walk and i think one during the pandemic with us being home it’s just kind of finding ways of getting exercise even though you’re stuck at home or you’re in quarantine

uh it’s important to just say active but also the community of that of holding each other accountable how many steps did you get in today how many steps did you know i got in my ten k for this for today and the monthly challenges that you’ve inspired so i appreciate the fact that not only are you trying to show the event community how to create experiences how to connect whether it’s in person virtually or hybrid but also like taking care of yourself because self care has been something i feel like in our industry that’s been pretty non existent not just from the

health aspect but boundaries with clients boundaries with work life balance and things of that nature so uh do you jumping into like that personal coaching and live coaching to me it’s like a natural transition

[heidi_legein]: well thank you Deanna that’s nice you to say and also i love that you’re a part of the event prof walker community it’s actually a funny story but things always kind of match and fall into place and create a bigger a bigger storyline in the : end right the event proofs walk actually grew out of uh again me being annoyed with myself not moving a lot so i i always think it’s almost two years ago now i think i was taking part in the digital festival an event online that was organized by forever and ever

[deanna_nwosu]: rain

[heidi_legein]: and ever uh not going out not moving and and feeling horrible about it so i just literally threw that in that group like i need to go walk and i need people to walk with me let’s

[deanna_nwosu]: right

[heidi_legein]: go and and now later we were like a little group of like five to ten people and we all went out for a walk and we decided to record it and then they shared the recordings and then initially i started sharing it on my personal social media accounts and then i thought again this can be bigger this can be better this can be good for more people right and then i started inviting more event props and created an actual account on instagram called them and prow i think now we’re up to somewhere close to eight hundred event profs who are walking constantly around the world where we’re sharing a little frequently less frequently than before because we’re all super busy but we have this core group where we keep messaging each other and encouraging each other to to stay active and it’s made such a big difference for me personally and i’ve heard back from from several people that they really love that little push or or that’s really something just that uh just what they need when they’re having a shady day and it you know you can just go and refresh your mind go for walk because someone is telling you come on you can do this you can get off the couch and and move and come back refreshed you know

 so and in the bigger picture i’m a big part of digital strategy and digital identity is building online communities so it’s also a fine example of how can build online community as a brand without marketing your brand directly or doing hard selling of any kind but literally just being there as a support entity for your client base your audience your customer group whatever it may be it’s become so important because people spend so much more time online all the time every single and then to be able to build those communities about around purpose and values is actually is actually very very important for any on a personal or a business level

[deanna_nwosu]: right absolutely well thank you so much for you know like you said you’ve kind of been like our life coach for the industry now you know from the the projects but  also personal

[heidi_legein]: oh well you keep promoting me Deanna

[deanna_nwosu]: created community like uh you yeah you can just be our our life coach globally will you know kind of look to uh heidi to kind of uh point us in on our path to become our best selves so this has been a great

[heidi_legein]: oh

[deanna_nwosu]: conversation we’re wrapping up but i always ask every guest this question so i don’t want to put you on the spot but i have to we talked a lot about you know creating digital experiences and and connecting and and your kind of background as a destination management kind of expert but if you had one song to convey that experience or your background and your career what would it be

[heidi_legein]: hm

[deanna_nwosu]: and why

[heidi_legein]: it’s a good one i actually love love this song Winner i don’t know if you know a Winner by Jamie Fox and Justin Timberlake

[deanna_nwosu]: oh i think i’ve heard of it yeah

[heidi_legein]: uh i’m a winner winner

you know it it not not because i am but because i want everybody our network and the industry to to be

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah

[heidi_legein]: a winner and to feel like a winner every single day and it’s about taking those chances those risks it it’s about motivating each other and supporting each other in those communities and i feel we are a very very strong breed of people especially those event professionals but also people working with planning in project management in their in their businesses every day 

you have to kind of be resilient and flexible and keep adjusting and adapting to new situations and i think you know regardless of of all the the lows we’ve had because there’s no denying that it’s been a true roller coaster run we’ve all had our moments of o just you know almost wanting to give up right it’s been tough times we have to remember that we are so strong and that we can always keep going and that no matter what comes onto our paths that may seem like a huge hurdle we can overcome it 

so that song Winner is literally one that i would recommend everybody to listen to her regularly to remind yourself of that

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah i think that’s a great way to close you know being resilient harnessing that attitude of a winner celebrating small wins i think because we are being hit with setbacks and you know we’re having to use that dreaded p word you know pivoting left and right and up down side to side but whenever you get a small one just celebrate that um because you are a winner we all are winners just the fact anyone who is still in the event industry today as you were in the event industry pre pandemic and you’re still in it you’re winner right there so thanks for that message heidi before we

[heidi_legein]: absolutely

[deanna_nwosu]: close tell everyone where they can find you on the inter webs

[heidi_legein]: everywhere

the website is the miceguru.com but please connect with me mostly on social where i’m

 very active on instagram i am at the mice guru at the official page of the com company is the maasai literally i’m also the mice guru on twitter on linkedin you will find a page on facebook company page on linkedin as well i’m even on tik tok as the mice guru so wherever you want to find me i’ll be there

[deanna_nwosu]: yeah and i’m sure the mice will be in the metaverse once the it’s established so

[heidi_legein]: oh yeah we’ve already we’ve already kind of design a couple of hints in the digital disruptor to the metaverse by putting some of our speakers and even our dj in in an augmented reality type setting and yeah i will definitely build my own my screw avatars soon

[deanna_nwosu]: well thanks so much for joining heidi and have a great rest of your day

[heidi_legein]: it’s been an absolute pleasure thank you so much for having me Deanna take care

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